Posted by Travis Good in Office of the President - Bill #1

Posted by Ray Branch in Office of the President - Bill #1

Posted by Dave Eads in Office of the President - Bill #1
Posted by… suppressed (4) by the Post Ghost! 👻
Bill #1

The third paragraph in the “Club Rank Structure” section of the Member Order and Organization (MOO) bylaw currently states:

Character rank is defined as the rank that a Member’s individual role-playing character has attained. The rank structure for character rank is, from junior to senior:

• Civilian
• Crewman
• Cadet
• Ensign
• Lieutenant Junior Grade
• Lieutenant
• Lieutenant Commander
• Commander
• Captain
• Fleet Captain
• Commodore
• Rear Admiral
• Vice Admiral
• Admiral

Is hereby amended, replacing the previous section with the following:

Character rank is defined as the rank that a Member’s individual role-playing character has attained. The rank structure for character rank is, from junior to senior:

• Civilian
• Crewman
• Petty Officer
• Chief Petty Officer
• Senior Chief Petty Officer
• Master Chief Petty Officer
• Warrant Officer
• Senior Warrant Officer
• Chief Warrant Officer
• Cadet
• Ensign
• Lieutenant Junior Grade
• Lieutenant
• Lieutenant Commander
• Commander
• Captain
• Fleet Captain
• Commodore
• Rear Admiral
• Vice Admiral
• Admiral

Change:
- Adds enlisted fleet ranks to the list of playable character ranks.

Steve Johnson
President, Star-Fleet.com

This is great and all but how does a Cadet outrank all the enlisted? A cadet is just that. They hold no offical rank until they are commissioned, i.e. graduate. Cadets do get E5 (Sergeant) pay while in training. But that is for cadets going to military Academy’s today. Just my two cents.

Travis Good
Captain

Cadets/midshipmen are between NCO and WO in the US system. We have no information on how this works in Star Trek (which has already confused things slightly by using Cadet with otherwise Navy grades).

They’re still (going to be) an officer. Plus, it’s equivalent to Ensign for club rank purposes.

Katy

Cadet and Ensign are actually not the same as member ranks. This has been used in the past to differentiate between some things Academy-assigned new members can’t do (for example, join X-Fleet in the original BOXES).

Sarah

I believe Cadets do not outrank Enlisted Ranks until graduation to Ensign. I was given to understand that The Academy is more or less equivalent to Officer Candidate Programs in the US Armed Forces. Though it’s probably closer to something like West Point, or Annapolis. At those institutions, cadets are not considered sworn into the armed forces until after graduation, and thereby don’t hold a rank. In the club, it’s merely a word we use to distinguish between members who are going through the Academy and Members who aren’t. I could be wrong. I don’t actually know, but that’s where my mind tends to think this issue makes the most sense. Also, the matter is sort of a moot point because there pretty much won’t ever be a time where you have Cadet ranked Characters interacting with Enlisted ranks since there aren’t any swing positions on Academy ships and the cadets themselves are the JO’s. If someone does hold issue with that… I would propose a further amendment to clarify, but I doubt that it is necessary.

-Capt. Dave Eads

I think we can settle on having the Cadet situated between CWO and Ensign. I’ll go out on a whim and assume we know that CWOs have more experience and influence than Cadets, even though Cadets outrank CWOs. Just like how a new XO would respect the advice of a seasoned DH.

I’m not sure a further amendment is necessary, especially since there was enough time for members to read and discuss the original proposal.

-Ray

Like I said before. Cadet SHOULD NOT outrank anyone. They are not sworn in and therefore hold no rank just like our military institutions today. Cadet should determine someone from Academy from someone who graduated. But no rank.

Ray. Your analogy of a new XO takes heed from an experienced DH is very wrong. Although the XO should listen to ANY DH on matters that they excel at, they don’t have to in real life anyway. I think you mean a newly christened 2LT coming in and ordering the Sergeants around like he knows what he’s doing. Just my take on it.

Travis Good

Thank you all for your points. However, at this time we will not be revisiting this bill. This bill had a considerable review time in which this point could have been discussed, and that discussion was closed. So I consider this debate to be closed at this point.

If there any further concerns, please reach out to either myself, or Sarah, privately.

Thank you,
Steve