Posted by Steve Johnson (President) in Proposal: Edit to the agreed upon proposal in command format

Posted by Sidney Parker in Proposal: Edit to the agreed upon proposal in command format

Posted by Commodore Cale Reilly (STF Surgeon General / FComm, Foremost Fleet) in Proposal: Edit to the agreed upon proposal in command format
Posted by… suppressed (5) by the Post Ghost! 👻
Problem: The current agreed upon format for suggesting things in command (ironically) takes the following strucytre as outlined in this post and on the command MOTD.

“Please use the following format when introducing ideas or proposals to Command. The questions are provided as ideas on what to include in each section. This helps us evaluate and log your idea easier!

Problem: What is the problem that you are addressing? Why is this problem important to address? Include any relevant background information.
Proposal: What is your solution (the plan)? How does your solution address the problem? This is where the edict text would go for edict proposals.
Discussion: What are some forseen pros and cons? What would your plan cost the club? What would the club gain?
Note that a topic for discussion might only have a problem, as we’re trying to think up a solution!”

I believe this is a problem because it specifically states in the name that all proposals are addressing some form of perceived issue. Now while that may often be the case and perhaps it is simply a matter of semantics I believe that it fosters a culture of only proposing things for the sake of fixing perceived issue and that this is what we as discussion then look for. In that regard it may put people off suggesting things that are not necessarily problems but rather for development or evolution of things or just for the discussion of ideas. Worse still it also may colour the discussion as people reading it are trained to look for a problem that proposals are addressing and if they don’t find one or find the “problem” to be lacking as they see it then often they are unwilling to hear out the rest of the proposal, don’t understand stand it’s purpose, or simply reject it.

Proposal: I suggest we alter the words of the format to read “ Area of proposal:Is this an Idea/ a change to current policy or structures/a problem that you are addressing? Why is this Area important to address? Include any relevant background information.”

Discussion: Pro for this may be that it removes perceived barriers and may allow others who don’t voice their suggestions to do so more easily. It also takes us away from what I personally think is an address problems only culture. Con, it is arguably only a semantics thing (I will challenge this and say words have power to set a mindset before an idea is so much as read)

The cost of the club would be the time it will take to discuss this and hammer out wording if we so choose to hange it and someone’s time to update the MOTD and any other areas the current format lives.

This club arguably gains nothing but perhaps a mindset shift in time but I’m surmising this.

Cale

The point of having proposals focused on a “problem” is so that there’s clarity about what is supposed to be achieved by doing whatever is being proposed. The “proposal” bit would be how to actually achieve the what, and why that particular approach is best.

I think it’s fine if you want to change the word “problem” to some other word if you think it’s too negative or gives people the wrong impression of what Command is supposed to be. But if we are going to change it, it should be to something that retains the focusing effect that talking about a problem is supposed to provide, by focusing on what is really trying to be achieved. The bit where you suggest “An idea / a change to the current policy or structures” is less than ideal because it skips over the what and goes straight to a how. Skipping to how is bad because:

1. It generally makes the proposal harder to understand (“Erm, what’s the point, again?”). When people are confused because things were left unexplained, they tend to ask lots of questions to try to fill in what they think the gaps are, which can actually be more discouraging to people proposing something than it would be to simply say to then “I don’t like your idea.”

2. It short circuits the discussion of alternatives to do the same thing that could be better, because we tend to nitpick details whenever they’re put in front of people.

So yeah… if you think that the word “problem” is bad, I think the proposed phrasing would actually be worse. But I’m sure there’s some alternative that could fix whatever you think the problem is with “problem” and avoid the problems I see with what you proposed.

Joe

Yeah you may be right regarding what I suggested replacing it with. I’m not sure how else to change it. Maybe the list part is unclear and we should simply use something else?

Cale

Issue? Topic? Issue can have negative connotations but it’s not an entirely negative term. “Idea” can then replace “solution.”

The questions could then easily be changed to:

What issue are you addressing? Why is this important to address? Include any relevant background information.

and

What is your idea (the plan)? How does your idea address the issue? This is where the edict text would go for edict proposals.

Sarah

Being honest it all sounds like semantics to me. I’m ok with what we have. There are a lot of definitions out there but here is one from Merriam-Webster:

:Definition of problem (Entry 1 of 2)
:1.
:a question raised for inquiry, consideration, or solution

for me this works and I see no reason to replace it.

Sidney

Sidney, I agree it is very much a case is semantics in general as I said in my initial post. I still think that it seems slightly more negative in its current wording. Despite the definition I think that the current wording seems rather negative for what should be a solution focused discussion.

Cale

I mean if the majority wants a change then I do not have an issue with it. Your right. In the modern context, regardless of definitions, people view the word problem as negative or something that needs to be fixed, as if it was broken in the first place. I’m just of the mind that its ok as is but I am open to what your saying.

Sidney

What if we changed “Problem” to “Obstacle”? Would that sound better?

Steve

I don’t really take issue with the wording as it is, though I appreciate Cale’s view that it’s a bit negative.

Here’s my crack at a more positive version of the beginning of the proposal format:

What is the need for improvement that you are addressing? Why is it important to make this improvement?

Adam W.